Mother Crone’s Homeschool

Notes from the Conference-on Teaching Writing

Susan Wise Bauer gave an excellent seminar on teaching writing on Friday. I encourage you to first print and read the her notes, provided so thoughfully on her website. I do not wish to go against her wishes and reproduce, so these will help you follow along.

I preface all of this by stating that I did not follow classical education, or the Trivium, when my children were young. We had found Charlotte Mason early in our homeschooling journey, and her methods held so much resonance with our family. I was not until my son entered 7th grade that I read “The Well-Trained Mind” that I was drawn to the classical as well.

There are more than a few ways in which Charlotte Mason’s methods and the Trivium align: embracing great books to combine literature and history; using Latin as a tool for teaching grammar; and relying on copywork, narration, and dictation for the eary teaching of writing.

I again point out the distinct divisions in the stages of the trivium in this discussion. The Grammar Stage is early elementary. The goal in this stage is to learn as much basic information as possible. At this age, the greatest stength is memorizing. Remember all those little songs and games from elementary school that you still remember? As such, teaching during this time should be heavy on repitition, drill and memorization.

The purpose of all this repitition is to help the child recognize patterns and begin making logical connnections. This is the time to use those phonics workbooks and teach spelling rules, so that the foundation is strong as they more forward.

To this goal, teaching writing in the grammar stage should focus on a systematic teaching of grammar and punctuation, focusing on the conventions of sentences. (writing the names of parts of speech and learning how to use them.)

Bauer addresses the problem with most writing/ language arts programs for children, and encourages one to consider NOT using them in the grammar stage. Most programs ignore that fact that writing is composed of TWO different skills:
1) The ability to take an inarticulate idea and put it into words
and
2) The ability to take ideas in words and put those words onto paper.

By trying to get the child to do both these processes at the same time before they have developed the individual skills, you will often find a child who cannot formulate complete thoughts or will give very short answers. A grammar stage child is not yet ready for critical questions and logical thinking. Asking a 2nd grader to write what they think a character in a book intended by an action is a recipe for disaster, yet it this is the very thing more writing curricula attempts at this age.

Instead, Bauer suggests a combination of copywork, dictation, and narration at this age. Copywork is a great way for them to practice the conventions of writing-periods, capital letters, commas, quotations- without having to manage the dual task of creating original ideas. In grammar stage, fine-motor skill development varies, and copywork is ideal. Charlotte Mason also relies heavily on copywork, and I can see that both my children benefitted greatly. Punctuation became something they did not need to think about, and the daily copywork helped improve their handwriting and word spacing.

Dictation is a skill often overlooked, but one that has great benefit. This is the best way to teach the “habit of attention” needed for higher learning. By starting with just a sentence, and building up to paragraphs, you are helping your child learn to hold thoughts in their head. How many of us have children who cannot make it to their bedroom without forgetting what you had sent them their to retrieve? How then can we expect a child with such a short attention to hold on to their thoughts long enough to write them down in a logical manner?

A combination of copywork and dictation will teach the skills needed for the act of writing. A few tips for both:
~always use pencil- sit with the child new to both skills, and immediately correct improper spacing, spelling, and missed capital letters & punctuation.

~clearly describe what is to happen. “I am going to tell you two sentences that I want to write. Listen closely as I say them three times. Do not start writing until I am finished.” This helps them understand and mentally prepare.

~help with spelling in dictation- you will miss the purpose of dictation if you make the child stop to look up spellings. Offer it quickly when asked so they can continue with the thought.

Narration is the tool to help children learn take their inarticulate ideas and put them into cohesive sentences. Narration is a simple as asking a child “Tell me what that story was about?” As they begin speaking, you guide them through questions and examples to turn their idea into sentences.

Children are not naturally wired to address the who, what, when, where, and why of a topic. While you or I might read about the building of the pyramids and be able to do just that, a grammar stage child most likely will not. They may respond “They built pyramids in the desert.”
You can ask, “Who built pyramids in the desert?”
The child answers, “The Ancient Egyptians.”
You respond…”Yes, The Ancient Egyptians built pyramids in the desert. Why did they build them?”
The child: “So they could be buried there.”
You respond, “You’re right. The ANcient Egyptians built pyramids in the desert as their place of burial.”
Have the child repeat this full, complete thought.

Can you see how that works? Your child has all the information, but they do not yet naturally organize it well. Narration is a great tool for teaching this. When mine were young, I used to type out their history narrations for them, so they could add drawings illustrating them and we put them in a notebook.

Susan Wise Bauer suggests going a step further. After a while, start taking their narrations and make them into their copywork or dictation. Eventually, both skills will be developed enough to meld and the child can progress to written narrations with ease.

Writing in the Logic Stage builds upon the skills developed in the grammar stage. Basic grammar should now be expanded into diagramming sentences. As one who has taught writing at the college level for over a decade, Ms. Bauer feels diagramming is the missing key for students to learn how the parts of a sentence relate to each other. I know that while my children have used grammar programs with great success, none of them addressed diagramming. As such, Scout and I truly struggled with the latin this year, as success is very dependent upon a solid understanding of case and voice. She gives recommendations on her site, and I will also include this diagramming website to get anyone started.

The second element to be introduced at this stage is outlining. The student should be ready to move right into written narration at this stage. In fifth grade,you can start by asking them to pick out the main idea in each paragraph of their reading, and label the sentences I, II, III, etc.

In sixth grade, you can expand upon this by asking for not only the main idea, but a few supporting ideas labeled as such-
I Main Idea
A. supporting idea
B. supporting idea

In seventh, you can move still further by requesting details.
I. Main Idea
A. Supporting ideas
1. Details
2. Details

At this stage, you can ask the student to outline a reading from history and rewrite the page from their outline only. This exercise will reinforce their outlining skills.

And in eighth…you can add examples within the details
1. Details
a. b.
As such, students will develop the skill of outlining by practicing on other people’s writing first. This again goes against the grain of traditional writing programs that often put the cart before the horse, but is completely logically. Students are learning to recognize patterns the move systematically and build, and will find it much easier to do so with their own writing.

By the time your student reaches high school, or the rhetoric stage, they should have a solid background in grammar and be able to outline well. Ms. Bauer suggests continuing with both of these, while adding a new skill. High School students must learn how to formulate a thesis statement.

A thesis statement is a critical writing skill most students have not learned. Yet, one cannot write a solid paper if they have not developed a strong thesis statment that gives them the direction to follow in their outline. Bauer defines a thesis statement as such:
” A proposition that you can defend.
A statement that you can either prove or disprove.
An assertion that has to be supported by evidence. “
-refer to her notes at welltrainedmind.com

Every week the high school student should be doing one paper of 1-2 pages on history, science, or literature. Now is when rhetoric becomes crucial. No longer do we wish students to take in other’s writing and regurgitate it. Now we want them to take in that writing and FORM OPINIONS about it.

Our students are no longer taught how to think and relate to material. She states that this is one of the greatest problems with college freshman. They have been trained NOT to think, which is the exact opposite of what good writer’s need. But good writing generally comes from a place of conviction. This is to be drawn from our students.

Only now does she suggest a writing program. She encourages a good course in rhetoric and/or argumentation at this stage to aid the student in this goal. Again, refer to the notes for the specifics.

A few notes on some of the questions she was asked as well…

~With older students, you can go back and relay the foundation where it is weak…be it dictation, grammar, etc. It is better to start again than try to keep building poorly.

~ Creative writing should not be required. Recognize if your student possesses a creative leaning, and happily support it if they do. However, realize that creativity cannot be taught.

I am still digesting a great deal from this talk, and looking at ways to work this in with out plans for the next year. I do see a real lack in grammar for all of us (me included), and we will be addressing that. I like the idea of the shorter weekly writing assignments for Scout a great deal, and the outlining for Girlie. Additionally, my kids both have a strong creative need to write their own stories, and I want to encourage that as well.

I will hash out these plans over the next few weeks, and post htem in early August.

June 18, 2007 - Posted by Mother Crone's Homeschool | Homeschooling | | 8 Comments

8 Comments »

  1. I can’t wait for our meet up, I have so many
    questions…too many for here.lol
    Looking forward to seeing you and Girlie over the summer.

    Comment by Kate in NJ | June 18, 2007 | Reply

  2. Your thoughts have been quite helpful to me as I have a 11 yo and 13 yo sons and have been thinking of why we homeschool the way we do and what I am working on helping them achieve. I’ve looked through S. Wise’s book several times and have found great tidbits of information in it (we generally unschool but do unit studies as well – if that makes any sense LOL). I found the information you shared about outlining and writing very helpful as I contemplate the future.

    Thanks for all your insights.

    Comment by Cathy T | June 18, 2007 | Reply

  3. Since you were already thinking of using Brave Writer (and I have been going through it a bit recently), I think this fits well with Julie’s ideas, too.

    From my experience, not everyone writes well by outlining first. For some freewriting first, then turning it into an outline, then using the outline to revise works well. What you describe above from her talk is all sensible but seems to be formulated for folks with a particular learning style. You may need to adapt it to have real success with your more right-brained creative learners (e.g. by using freewriting).

    Comment by JoVE | June 18, 2007 | Reply

  4. I attended the Link conference in Pasadena several years ago with S.W. Bauer in attendance, and I thought she was just amazing – I attended every one of her presentations and gained so much knowledge. TWTM, while a good book, does her a disservice in my opinion, because its narrow focus is too limiting. I too am much more of an unschooler than TWTM allows for, but after hearing her sessions, I found that the foundations are something compatible with my eclectic style as well.

    Comment by Christina | June 18, 2007 | Reply

  5. Thank you so much for sharing these notes! I’ll have to print them out along with SWB’s to study this summer. I have a beginning writer (1st grade) and need all the help I can get.

    Comment by cellista | June 19, 2007 | Reply

  6. To further expand on Jove’s statemant

    What you describe above from her talk is all sensible but seems to be formulated for folks with a particular learning style.

    I am a big fan of Jesse Wise and Susan Baur and have a number of their materials but, I tend to take the concepts more than the specifics in their books, which I too believe is for a structured, visual learning style.

    I am currently using ” The Ordinary Parents Guide to teaching Reading” a great book of theirs to teach my DS to read – I do very few of the exercises they recommend but, do follow the learning pattern – that works well for me.

    Comment by MC Milker | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  7. Great post.

    I wanted to add that Charlotte Mason is a classical education model. You said you were doing CM method up to 7th grade and so that means, technically, you were already doing the classical method!

    Since you know the CM methods as you read “The Well Trained Mind” you will be able to easily pick out which of CM’s methods that Wise and Bauer selected to also advise to use, although they don’t mention CM (if I remember correctly). Some things they say to do are a twist on CM methods.

    One example of something not pure is if you use Story of the World Activity Book the narration directions they give ask for parroting back specific tidbits like names and dates and to keep the narration to a few sentences. While CM also advocated narration she said it could go on longer, especially for the young children like first grader’s who are just learning how to summarize and narrate. CM also was against parroting back of facts. CM said to let each child take away from a reading what they felt was important to their unique self in their own mind. In TWTM they want the facts, dates, and names in the narration, that is a big difference. Also in the Activity Book (which I do use and really do love, but I adapt it to suit my philosophy and our needs and desires)….they also give questions to prompt typical of “reading comprehension” questions that we parents can use. However CM was against that.

    I also use some of CM’s methods and I use some of the recommendations in TWTM. I like the high aims and goals as outlined in TWTM, and how it helps us lay out a plan to achieve a goal.

    I run a discussion group focused on the Charlotte Mason method and it has been so interesting to discuss CM’s theories and how we interpret them and how we pick and choose what to apply and how it actually all pans out in reality (vs. our “perfect plans”).

    Thanks again for posting on this.

    Comment by ChristineMM | June 26, 2007 | Reply

  8. Sat through the same talk at the Florida Homeschool Convention. I loved it and have been doing the dictation with my 7 year old. It’s going well, so far.

    Comment by Kathy | June 26, 2007 | Reply


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